Kennys

[mikekenny51]

Which are the specific tests in these two companies that you recommend. Nebula seems to be having a Winter sale. The retail prices seem to be thousands of dollars. And they are greatly reduced now.
To get the most bang out of my buck, who do you recommend I get tested ?
Lastly, how is the result data shared with experts like yourself ? Do they have projects like FTDNA ? Can the data be shared from there ?

I am heading over to Ireland in May and was wondering if any companies have discounts if I purchase multiple kits.

[Webmaster]

Mike,

I don't consider myself an expert by any means. I am just an amateur genealogist who has taught himself as much as possible about Irish history and Y-DNA testing since 2017 AD. I try to share what I have learned freely; but I make no claims to being anything other than a self-taught genealogy enthusiast.

Re the WGS tests, Nebula Genomics is more oriented towards the medical applications of DNA testing, although they do have genealogical connections, while YSEQ is pretty much exclusively genealogically oriented.

I believe it is called the Nebula Genomics Deep test, which is a 30X read depth test, but only a 100 to 150 bp read length test. The YSEQ WGS400 test is only a 15X read depth test, but it is a 400 read length test. Ideally, you want the largest read depth AND read length. So it is kind of a judgement call as to which way to lean. Some experts I have asked lean towards the Nebula test because of the read depth. But Nebula tests are typically processed in China, if that is a concern. Also, to get the US$299 price, you have to subscribe to the Nebula Explorer service for at least a month, which is an addition US$20 per month.

The YSEQ test, which is what I have been using, is US$399 and is processed in Germany. With both of these companies, I recommend having YFull analyze your Y-DNA and MT-DNA for an additional US$45. I also recommend having your data uploaded to the YDNA Warehouse. Both of these companies have arrangements with the YDNA Warehouse to easily export your test results to there. Since you already have an FTD kit upload to the YDNA Warehouse, if you have not already, you can activate your free YDNA Warehouse account, which will allow you to aggregate all your Y-DNA test results.

Alex Williamson picks up test results from the YDNA Warehouse and adds/updates them to/on The Big Tree. James Kane of the YDNA Warehouse also does some automated processing of the test results. I pick up the results for the DCG Cladogram primarily from The Big Tree and a little bit from YFull and YSEQ. You will need to read up to see which test you are most comfortable with. Again, I prefer YSEQ because I think they are a good company to work with. And to be clear, I get no "kickbacks" or referrer commissions from anyone. But do read up on the tests and ask the companies questions. I hope this helps.

[mikekenny51]

This has been very helpful. It will take me a while to digest. Thank you.

BTW - I do not see kit105755 listed on the Big Tree. Did I miss a step ?

[Webmaster]

Mike,

You are very welcome.

Do you mean kit #FTD-IN105755? Have you uploaded that kit to the YDNA Warehouse? You need to verify that, because if not, it will not be picked up for The Big Tree.

BTW, you can use your account as a project account on the YDNA Warehouse and upload everyone's kits into that account. Just make sure when you are registering new kits, DO NOT SELECT THE CREATE NEW KIT NUMBER OPTION! If you do that, you will lose the FTD, YSQ, or YFL kit numbers and wind up with a YDNA Warehouse taxon number, which is hard to track.

[mikekenny51]

yes I thought that is how you noticed the Clontuskert connection.
I will try to reload the kit.

[mikekenny51]

I sent a note to the warehouse help desk. I am not sure what the problem is.

FYI- Concerning the lineage discussion, Adrian Martyn, the author of The Tribes of Galway and another book on Irish Names, has a new book coming out and was kind enough to give me a peek on some of his Kenny analysis on the East Galway Facebook page. I thought you might find it helpful. I am looking forward to his book.

Adrian Martyn:

Mike, in the 1830s John O'Donovan believed that their territory, Muintir Chionnaith was Creagh and Moore parishes in south Roscommon. In 1958 Father Patrick Egan concluded O'Donovan was wrong: "The vicarage of Moyntirkynick [Muintir Chionnaith] was in the deanery of Clonfert [so] It was probably the isolated portion of Creagh parish surrounded by the parish of Moore consisting of the townlands of Coolderry, Culliaghbeg and Gortnasharvoge."…

Adrian Martyn:

Muintir Chionnaith really do seem to have been Uí Mhaine, but there is contradictory evidence over which sliocht: Síl nAnmchada or Cenél Eógain Find? However, on the basis of annalistic and genealogical evidence they were probably Cenél Eóghain Find, which means they and the Uí Chellaigh share a common ancestor in Dlútach, king of Uí Mhaine who died in 712. Via his son Indrachtach (died 755), one of Dlútach's great-great grandsons was Cellach, alive sometime in the mid-800s and ancestor of the Uí Cheallaigh. Another son of Dlútach was Flaithmail, from whom Clann Flaithmail were called and Muintir Chionnaith were later described as lords of Clann Flaithmail. This very much indicates they were a kindred of Clann Flaithmail and thus descendants of Dlútach via Flaithmail, who died in 722. I am trying to specify their chronology as best I can and will be including genealogies to help with this.

Adrian Martyn:

Concerning the fire of 1045. Annála Loch Faithlinn says: "Dam liac Cluana Ferta Brenainn do loscud do h-Uib Mane, & mc. Godra m. Dunadaich do thabairt doib ass & a marbad i faitche na cille./The stone church of Cluain Ferta Brénainn was burned by the Uí Maine, and the son of Gadra, son of Dúnadach, was taken out of it by them and slain on the church lawn." Since at least 1027, and possibly since the death of Tadhg Ua Cellaigh at Clontarf in 1014, the kingship of Uí Mhaine was contested by the Uí Dhunadaigh of Síl nAnmchada. Gadra was a son of Dúnadach Ua Dunadaigh, common ancestor of the Uí Dhunadaigh and Uí Mhadáin. In 1031 "Two sons of Dub Dáire [ua Lionsech] son of Cinéad, i.e., two royal heirs of Uí Mhaine, were slain by the son of Cú Chonnacht." Cú Chonnacht Ua Dunadaigh died in 1007 as king of Síl nAnmchada and he was a first cousin of the two sons of Dub Daire; his son, their first cousin once removed, was king of Síl nAnmchada when he was killed in 1032.

Adrian Martyn:

So in those generations when the Uí Dhunadaigh ruled Síl nAnmchada they were also contending for the overall kingship of Uí Mhaine, against the Uí Chellaigh. But they also had internal threats from none other but their own family. This dynastic conflict ended in 1069 when Diarmait Ua Dunadaigh was killed by his second cousin, Matudán Mór ua Matudáin, a grandson of Matudán Ua Dunadaigh. Henceforth the kingship of Síl nAnmchada was held by ua Matudáin's descendants, who ceased using the surname Ua Dunadaigh and adopted a new one derived from Matudán Mór's sufficx, Ua Madadháin alias Ó Madáin or O'Madden. So to cut a long story short, Muintir Chionnaith were not responsible for the 1045 fire. Likely they were involved on one side or the other, but they were not the dynasts leading the fight.

[Webmaster]

Mike,

Thanks for that info!

I have had some limited correspondence with Mr. Martyn previously, and let's just say we have different perspectives. He does not seem to be interested in what the Y-DNA evidence is showing conclusively. If you have also been following the The Uí Maini Puzzle thread, the Y-DNA conclusively shows that the ONLY genetic Uí Maini family is the O’Kelly, who are R1b-FGC6540+, which is a very early split from the lineage that became the Dál Cuinn.

Apparently, not even the O’Madden family is genetically related to them. All the other Uí Maini families were part of the FEDERATION, but NOT genetically related to the O’Kelly, with the Y-DNA evidence we have currently. So the Uí Maini were NOT a dynastic group descending from a common male progenitor; and as such, their genealogies were obviously manufactured and cannot be trusted. This is why we are having such a hard time puzzling out who the Uí Maini federation families are. To date, outside the O’Kelly and the O’Madden, they seem to be R1b-A1206 Uí Fiachroí Aidne, R1b-FGC5939 Uí Briúin, possibly Maicne Eócháda Tírmchárnai, and R1b-FGC71316 Uí Néill, Cenél Conaill. So ain't we got fun?

[ChrisMcLain132906]

Catching up on all your research here and I didn't realize there were FGC5939 Kennys in the Ui Maini territory. I have one A5902+ Kenny who is part of a clade of O'Fionnan and one MacDomhnaill. All I can tell about O'Fionnan is the modern population cluster around what was Machaire Connacht. If the tentative common ancestor is equi-distant between the two populations, it's roughly Dealbhna Nuadat/Tir Maine.



A5902+ Kenny seems to have been pulled along the Sli Mor. It's also notable that Lusmagh parish in Co. Offaly was once Ui Maini territory. This Sli Mor routeway seems to have been flinging Connachta all over the midlands for over a millennium. I have the same conundrum with my clade of A5902>FT130287. The surnames as a whole dont make much sense but the population seems to have possibly been along the Sli Mor in some vicinity of Dealbhna Nuadat. Perhaps some of the A5902+ were holdovers in Maigh Seola after the big migrations out, and were part of the Seola clade that was apparently in Dealbhna Nuadat or arrived there independently.

[Webmaster]

Yes. The Kenny, Mac Kenny, and O’Kenny surname is proving to be quite problematic since it has at least two different derivations from Gaelic surnames: Cináeda and Coinnig.

The R1b-FGC5939+ Kennys SEEM to be the Cland Flaithemáin AKA Muinter Cináeda Ó Cináeda whose territory was the Barony of Moycarn just to the east of Ballinasloe.