Bloodline Or Cland, Does It Matter?

[Webmaster]

Mark,

I have moved what seems to be all the relevant posts to this new topic, as requested. I hope this is OK.

[Mark Monroe]

I learned something new today in the most recent edition of the Clan Munro newsletter regarding Clan Munro of Scotland. What I learned will update previous postings regarding the origin of the clan. Previous posts had the clan originating in South West Ireland. Those in the UK don't see Ireland as we do in the states which leads to the misinterpretation regarding SW Ireland. To clarify, SW Ireland with the Clan Munro is geographically SW Ulster in Northern Ireland, not SW in the Republic of Ireland in modern terms.

This being said, the documented root Irish ancestor of the Munros was Cumhaige na nGall O'Cathain, Prince of Fermonach and was born in about 935 in Ireland. This information puts a whole new twist in my research. Now I need to find lineage of Cumhaige na nGall O'Cathain to see if he falls under any Y-DNA lines besides the Scotland Clan to see if he was I-P37 like the Foulis Munros or R-M269 like me. I know the current clan chief is related maternally with his dad changing his name to Munro and moved to Scotland from Canada. One such tree is found here: https://quinnbradleesancestors.fandom.c ... (c.935_-_).

[Webmaster]

Mark,

Very interesting info. His name was probably originally Cú Maige (''hound of the plain") na nGall ("of the foreigners") Ó Catháin, probably of Fermanagh; although this may be a conflation on my part since there are 2 distinct Irish words, manach and monach with quite different meanings. His surname makes one think almost immediately of the R1b-S595 Uí Néill, Cenél nEógain, Cland Conchobair Maig Ite Ó Catháin, although their territory was concentrated around Derry. But the I-P37 Y-DNA of his purported descendants contradicts that immediately. What is VERY interesting is his sobriquet of "na nGall". Does that imply he was an "adopted" member of the Cland Ó Catháin? If so, that could very readily explain the I-P37 Y-DNA.

There is another group of Ó Catháin in Ulster known as the O'Cahan of the Route. This should be of particular interest, although they were located in NW Co. Antrim.

The O'Cahan's of the Route are a branch of the Ó Cathaín that moved into the area of north-eastern County Londonderry and north-western County Antrim known historically as "the Route". The Route was held by the Hiberno-Norman MacQuillans, and a fierce rivalry would erupt between the O'Cahans and MacQuillans. The end of this rivalry would see the destruction of the MacQuillans power and the weakening of the O'Cahans corresponding to the rise of MacDonnells.

The Scottish clans Both Chanain (Buchanan, Mawhinney) and Mac Ausaláin (MacCausland) both descend from Ausalan Buoy O'Kayn, allegedly of the O'Cahans of the Route.

Anyway, sadly nothing to do with the R1b-BY3338 Uí Briúin Bréifne, Cenél Áeda Find. TBH, Mark, as Chris has suggested previously, I think your surname had a completely different origin and you have no connection in any way, not even as an SCE, to the "Scottish" Cland Munro.

As a quick followup, I did find this on Wikipedia:

The O'Cahan sept of Keenaght Glengiven first appear on record in 1138. A thirteenth-century chief of the family was Cumee na Gall O'Cahan. A heavily restored effigy at Dungiven Priory is sometimes associated with Cumee, although it appears to date to the last quarter of the fifteenth century, and seems to be that of a later member of the sept.

There is a link to the Cland Munro in the article as well.

[Mark Monroe]

David,

I agree and believe along with Chris that I have no bloodline tie to the clan. What this information does give me is a tighter geographical area over time with the clan and my unknown ancestor. It also helps with historical timelines and maternal surnames listed in various Munro family trees. For instance, if a McEnroe shows up as a wife of a Munro it can give me a path to follow. Or, if another matching surname comes on the radar I can followup those too. The hurdles I have are lack of close Y-DNA SNP matches other than Munro/Monroe and those matches are still of the mindset that they are Scottish Munro. That and not having an Irish surname as a starting point and my known ancestor was born in Ireland in a time frame of the late 1600's to the mid 1700's where records are lacking. I may end up building a workbook using a worksheet just for clan Munro in addition to work sheets for Y-SNP and Y-STR matches located at Family Tree, YFull, and the like similar to what Chris does. Too many gaps to fill with a lack of solid historical information or DNA matches as of yet. On the bright side, I am lightyears ahead of where my research was 5 years ago!

[Webmaster]

Mark,

I am sure you have already checked, but apparently Edward MacLysaght says Monroe was adopted by some Mallons and Milroys. That gives you a few surnames to play with.

1. Ó Máeláin (Mullin)
2. Ó Melláin (Mallon)
3. Ó Maíl Find (Mallen/Malynn)
4. Ó Maíl Rúada (Milroy/Mulroy)

The Anglicization of some Gaelic surnames is the same, so we loose the difference.