A259 Variant Origin

[Webmaster]

The A259 variant is now considered to have occurred in Muiredach Mál rather than his father Eógan Sríab. This change is to allow for Cruitíne, the second son of Eógan Sríab, to also be a progenitor of the non R-A259 subclades under R-A18726 along with Dau Galach's second son Ernán. Cruitíne's lineage is given in the Book of Ballymote as:

Genelach O nEarca Cein

• Doilghen m. Duibginn m. Eochogan m. Fergusa m. Cimmen m. Forannain m. Seghain m. Cumaine m. Oschon m. Broicc m. Aine m. Sinill m. Amhairgein m. Cruitine m. Eogain Sreim m. Duac galaig m. Briain m. Echach Muigmedon.
• Doraidhen m. Dungalan m. Doilgen m. Fergusa m. Cimmein m. Forannain m. Segain m. Cumaine.
• Cinaeth m. Ruarcain m. Maelsnechta m. Morna m. Ferchair m. Assene m. Cumaine m. Oschon m. Broicc m. Aine & annullt aibh atait sidhen.

https://genelach.network/transcript-boo ... inErcaCein

It is wondered especially if this MIGHT be the origin of the R-BY198 clade. This is because cruitíne COULD have a meaning of "harpist" and many of the surnames under the R-BY198 clade are noted as scholarly and bardic families. Unfortunately, cruitíne can also have a meaning of "hunchback".

[tamcevoy]

Cross posted

[ChrisMcLain132906]

Excellent work, I'm fascinated with the movement and kinship developments of the professional classes, I bet you are right on the money with "harpist".

[pdonelan]

Is there any other reason for this change, besides to allow for the possibility that BY198 could have originated with Cruitíne as well as Ernán?
Am I right in thinking that the main candidates for the origin of BY198 are Ernán or a few generation later, and Cruitíne or a few generation later?
Thanks for your great research
Patrick Donelan

[Webmaster]

Patrick,

Yes, you are correct. The sole reason for the conceptual movement of A259 from Eógan Sríab to his son Muiredach Mál is to allow for Ernán AND Cruitíne to be possible progenitors of the 5 non R-A259 subclades of the R-A18726 clade. Ernán is attributed with 3 sons:

1. Báetán (progenitor of the Síl Báetáin)
2. Scandal
3. Fergus Cnoc

Only Fergus Cnoc is given a continued detailed lineage.

And as shown previously, Cruitíne is attributed with one son, Amargen (most likely spelling from eDIL). So having 4 possible progenitors spread across 5 subclades is better. And with the exception of the R-BY198 subclade, these subclades have few testers; meaning that the likelihood of umbrella clades being discovered is high.

The counter argument is that Cruitíne's lineage shows 6 generations before a split in one case and 10 generations before a split in the other case. None of these subclades has a large monolithic phylogenetic node before splitting; so either Cruitíne does not fit, OR his lineage is woefully incomplete.

An incomplete lineage is not too unlikely given that he appears stuck in the Book of Ballymote almost as an afterthought between the Uí Briúin Bréifne and Uí Briúin Aí genealogies under the heading of "Genealogy of the Ó nErcca Céin" and there is no Ercc mentioned anywhere in the pedigree. But to allow for completeness, A259 is being conceptually moved. It changes nothing on the Cladogram practically speaking.

[pdonelan]

Thank you

[Muireagain]

I am unaware of any usage of Cruitíne in a historical context. It appears to be a variant of Cruithini, or more commonly Cruithin. The Irish term for the people referred to in Latin texts as the Picti. This name is believed to derive from Qritani, a reconstructed Goidelic (Q-Celtic) form of the Brittonic (P-Celtic) Pritani. The same root from which the ancient Greek geographer Pytheas recorded the term Pretanoí, later Latinized as Britanni.

The Book of Ballymote contains a section titled "Genelach Uí nErca Céin", which is a continuation of part of the genealogies of Uí nErca Céin (specifically that of Doiligein mac Duibgind m. Eochacháin), also preserved in Senchas Síol hÍr. This longer version is labeled "De for-sloindtib Uí nErca Céin, .i. Crothraidi 7 Eirchiti Uí Erca Céin so" under the header "De for-sloindtib Uí nErca Céin andso .i. Ceuel Talain", and is followed by "De for-sloindtib Uí nErca Céin .i. Crothraigi 7 Buaidgine."

Crothraidi appears in the list of tribes tributary to the king of Ulaid in Lebor na gCeart and seems to have been located south of Larne, according to the research of Margaret Dobbs.

An earlier genealogical section in Senchas Síol hÍr titled "Genelach Uí nErca Céin" names one of these lineages as kings of Latharna (Larne), a title confirmed by the annals, and which record a second king from the line. Paul MacCotter writes that “Síol Fingin were an early offshoot of the line of kings of Latharna and held the overkingship of Dál nAraide at least twice (in 645 and 698).” In other words, we are dealing with a population that assumed control of the kingship of the Cruithin (East Ulster.)

The final genealogical tract in the Book of Ballymote concerns the O'Moran family of Leth Cathail. modern day Lecale, Co. Down. Their pedigree is preserved in the work of Dubhaltach Mac Fhirbhisigh, according to John O’Donovan, who writes:

“Kenny, son of Ruarcan, son of Maelsnechta, son of Morna (from whom the O’Mornas in Leth Cathail are named), son of Ferchar, son of Oisen, son of Onchu, son of Broc, son of Aine, son of Sinill, son of Amergin, son of Cruitine, son of Eoghan Sriabh, son of Duach Galach.”

[Webmaster]

Bernard,

You must have missed:

This is because cruitíne COULD have a meaning of "harpist" and many of the surnames under the R-BY198 clade are noted as scholarly and bardic families. Unfortunately, cruitíne can also have a meaning of "hunchback".

So it is NOT related to the Cruthin at all.

The Cruthin were a people of early medieval Ireland. Their heartland was in Ulster and included parts of the present-day counties of Antrim, Down and Londonderry. They are also said to have lived in parts of Leinster and Connacht. Their name is the Irish equivalent of *Pritanī, the reconstructed native name of the Celtic Britons, and Cruthin was sometimes used to refer to the Picts, but there is a debate among scholars as to the relationship of the Cruthin with the Britons and Picts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruthin

All I can say is that I KNOW the Book of Ballymote says “Cruitíne, son of Eoghan Sriabh, son of Duach Galach” as shown previously. And you are confirming that:

Their pedigree is preserved in the work of Dubhaltach Mac Fhirbhisigh, according to John O’Donovan, who writes:

“Kenny, son of Ruarcan, son of Maelsnechta, son of Morna (from whom the O’Mornas in Leth Cathail are named), son of Ferchar, son of Oisen, son of Onchu, son of Broc, son of Aine, son of Sinill, son of Amergin, son of Cruitine, son of Eoghan Sriabh, son of Duach Galach.”

That is as black and white as it gets. Whether it is accurate or not is a different matter. But I am coming to prefer the Book of Ballymote more and more AFTER Muiredach Tírech.

[Muireagain]

Is there any evidence that the term Cruitini meant "harpist"? I can find no historical usage supporting such a meaning.

It is clear that Cruithin was a term for the ancient Britons, notiably those located in Counties Antrim and Down, where the Uí Erca Céin tribes are recorded as living.

Mac Fhirbhisigh is known to have used the Book of Ballymote as a source. So where did this late 14th-century manuscript derive the name Cruitini from and do we know the SNP that defines the O'Moran of Co. Down or other Uí Erca Céin dynastic surname?

[Webmaster]

Here are the possible derivations:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cruit
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cruitíneach
https://dil.ie/13251
https://dil.ie/13156

Also, from An Lebar Dond:

16. Genelach O nErca Cein
117. Doilgen m. Duibgind m. Eochagain m. Fergusa m. Cimen m. Ferandain m. Segan m. Cumaine m. Oscon m. Broicc m. Maine m. Sinill m. Aimirgin m. Cruitine m. Eogain sreib m. Duath galaig m. Briain m. Eachach M. m. Muiredaigh T. m. Fiacha S.
https://genelach.network/transcript-an_lebar_dond.xhtml

That genealogy leaves no doubt as to whom Cruitíne is purported to descend from. It is possible that there were TWO different O nErca Cein families and/or a conflation occurred. I have no idea. I just know what the genealogies say and I am sticking with that until superior contrary evidence is found.

It is well recognized that some early spellings mutated over time. It is possible that cruitíne is an earlier or bad genitive form of cruitín. But as can be seen from those references, "harp" and "humpback" have a similar etymology. I speculate that Cruitíne is more related to "harp" than "humpback", but who knows?