The SOA analysis of my BigY700 results says " R1b-BY38364 parent clade that, again, is currently the best umbrella for the Muinter Selbacháin ". Can anyone help regarding the Muinter Selbacháin, where did they originate, how far back into history are we going? I've googled Muinter Selbacháin resulting in 'Your search - Muinter Selbacháin - did not match any documents'.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Muinter Selbacháin?
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Re: Muinter Selbacháin?
Paul,
The Muinter Selbacháin is not a standard cland name. It is one I adopted since Selbachán was the brother of Máel Mórda, and the Uí Ruairc are descended from Selbachán. Please see the attached genealogical chart by Dr. Paul Mac Cotter. Further, most of the texts call him Sellachán; however, I cannot find this name documented anywhere else. Instead, the name Selbachán is well documented historically, and I suspect Sellachán was a typo of Selbachán by some scribe centuries ago that has been propagated ever since. I hope that clears up any confusion.
https://medievalscotland.org/kmo/Annals ... chan.shtml
Oh, and BTW, this would be the DCG analysis, not the SOA, since FTDNA in their infinite wisdom forced us to disassociate the two.
Uí Briúin Bréifne Genealogical Chart:
The Muinter Selbacháin is not a standard cland name. It is one I adopted since Selbachán was the brother of Máel Mórda, and the Uí Ruairc are descended from Selbachán. Please see the attached genealogical chart by Dr. Paul Mac Cotter. Further, most of the texts call him Sellachán; however, I cannot find this name documented anywhere else. Instead, the name Selbachán is well documented historically, and I suspect Sellachán was a typo of Selbachán by some scribe centuries ago that has been propagated ever since. I hope that clears up any confusion.
https://medievalscotland.org/kmo/Annals ... chan.shtml
Oh, and BTW, this would be the DCG analysis, not the SOA, since FTDNA in their infinite wisdom forced us to disassociate the two.
Uí Briúin Bréifne Genealogical Chart:
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Paul O'Rourke
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Re: Muinter Selbacháin?
Thanks very much for that. Talking of typos my Gt. Grandmother (Maggie) is listed in the 1911 census as Waggie, I can't make my mind up if it's someone's handwriting or whether the enumerator had trouble with my Gt. Grandfather's Irish accent.
Last edited by Paul O'Rourke on Sun, 2020-Apr-05 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Muinter Selbacháin?
Paul,
You are very welcome. My apologies for any confusion.
Based on the wide range of spellings we are seeing of Anglicized surnames that have a common Gaelic origin, it is my belief that American and British English speaking ears just had a damn difficult time with correctly understanding Irish English speakers; especially those where English was the second language.
You are very welcome. My apologies for any confusion.
Based on the wide range of spellings we are seeing of Anglicized surnames that have a common Gaelic origin, it is my belief that American and British English speaking ears just had a damn difficult time with correctly understanding Irish English speakers; especially those where English was the second language.
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Mark Monroe
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Re: Muinter Selbacháin?
Referring to the Uí Briúin Bréifne Genealogical Chart below, I still wonder if I follow the Reilly or Rourke lines...
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Re: Muinter Selbacháin?
Mark,
Since you are R1b-BY11722+, I am confident you are a descendant of the Muinter Maíl Mórda (O’Reilly line) and NOT the parallel R1b-BY38364 Muinter Selbacháin (O’Rourke line). This is always subject to change with new data, but this appears to be fairly solid at this point in time.
Unfortunately, we are only seeing the 2 probable Muinter Selbacháin men so far. Also, the Y-DNA does not seem to be lining up precisely with that chart for the Muinter Maíl Mórda as regards the Muinter Cináeda line which appears to have split off BEFORE where they are shown. This could be due to undiscovered uniting mutations. Hopefully in the very near future we will FINALLY have tests that completely cover the ENTIRE Y chromosome with NO gaps in coverage. When that happens, we may see some interesting changes in the Y-Haplotree.
Since you are R1b-BY11722+, I am confident you are a descendant of the Muinter Maíl Mórda (O’Reilly line) and NOT the parallel R1b-BY38364 Muinter Selbacháin (O’Rourke line). This is always subject to change with new data, but this appears to be fairly solid at this point in time.
Unfortunately, we are only seeing the 2 probable Muinter Selbacháin men so far. Also, the Y-DNA does not seem to be lining up precisely with that chart for the Muinter Maíl Mórda as regards the Muinter Cináeda line which appears to have split off BEFORE where they are shown. This could be due to undiscovered uniting mutations. Hopefully in the very near future we will FINALLY have tests that completely cover the ENTIRE Y chromosome with NO gaps in coverage. When that happens, we may see some interesting changes in the Y-Haplotree.
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Mark Monroe
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Re: Muinter Selbacháin?
David,
Thanks for confirming what I have been concluding for the last few years. For some reason every time I revisit this, a little voice in my head leaves a snippet of doubt. This even though I have been telling family we most likely fall under the O'Reilly line. It will be nice when testing improves and we get more samples.
-Mark
Thanks for confirming what I have been concluding for the last few years. For some reason every time I revisit this, a little voice in my head leaves a snippet of doubt. This even though I have been telling family we most likely fall under the O'Reilly line. It will be nice when testing improves and we get more samples.
-Mark