Genelach Dáil Cuinn Project™ Forum

R1b-S588 gives strong evidence of being the descendants of the Cenél nEógain primarily from its R1b-S7814, which appears to contain the Mac Lochlaind and Ó Donngaile families, and from R1b-S603, which appears to contain the Ó Dubdíorma family, the Cland Conchobair Maig Ite, and the Cenél Maín (Moen).

The Y-DNA of the above 2 subclades does not strictly agree with the various septs of the Cenél nEógain given in the Wikipedia article, but overall it does seem to fit well enough. However, there are a few other direct subclades of R1b-S588 that still remain to be identified, one of which is the R1b-FT165097 subclade. This subclade has a large number of Ó hÓgáin in its R1b-FT165098 direct subclade.

The Wikipedia article identifies the Ó hÓgáin as being descendants of the Cenél Feargusa, that is, the descendants of Fergus son of Muiredach son of Eógain son of Niall Noígíallach. However, Rev. Woulfe says there was also an Ó hÓgáin family who were part of the Cenél Tigernaig, who are closely related to the Cland Conchobair Maig Ite, who are R1b-S603+. Due to this, then the R1b-FT165098+ Ó hÓgáin are more likely to be descended from the Cenél Feargusa.

There is an interesting quandry in that there are 2 different sets of Ó hÁdmaill families. One is R1b-BY94024+, which is a subclade of the R1b-FT165097 subclade where the Cland Ó hÓgáin also are; while the second is R1b-BY18197+, which is a subclade of the R1b-S7814 subclade. The Wikipedia article says the Ó hÁdmaill are descendants of the Cenél mBinnig, that is the descendants of Eóchád Binnech son of Eógain son of Niall Noígíallach. As such, they should be in a completely separate direct subclade of R1b-S558. Most of the direct subclades of R1b-S558 should descend from Muiredach son of Eógain son of Niall Noígíallach, while a few should descend from Eóchád Binnech son of Eógain son of Niall Noígíallach.

BUT! Based on the time frame give for Eóchád Binnech of ~734 AD, he could not have been a direct son of Eógain son of Niall Noígíallach, but must have been a later descendant. With the 2 different Ó hÁdmaill families we are seeing, it raises the question of whether he was descended from Fergus son of Muiredach son of Eógain son of Niall Noígíallach along with the Ó hÓgáin; or was he descended from Muirchertach mac Ercca son of Muiredach son of Eógain son of Niall Noígíallach, who is credited with a son name Fergus as well. Could there have been a conflation between a Fergus son of Muiredach and a Fergus grandson of Muiredach?

It raises some interesting questions about the early genealogy of the Cenél nEógain that we will hopefully be able to puzzle out.

Under S603 I have:

S603>FGC57760 Neill>Eoghan>Muiredach>Muircherdach ?? Descendants, Clan Conchobair – I.e., O Cathain
S603>FGC57780 Neill>Eoghan>Muiredach>Moan descendants, Cenél Moain – I.e., O Gormley
S603>A9884 Neill>Eoghan>Muiredach>Fearadhach descendants, Cenél Fearadhaigh, I.e., Campbells and Short
S603>FGC4113 Neill>Eoghan>[Muiredach]>Feidlimith descendants, I.e., O Duibh Dhiorma
S603>FGC19831 Neill>Eoghan>[Muiredach]>Fergus descendants, I.e., Clan Robertson of Scotland ?? and MacClancy
S603>FGC16740 Neill>Eoghan>Muiredach>Tigernach descendants ??? Flaherty
S603>Y101940 ???
S603>BY20527 ???

Some are straight forward, the O Cathain, O'Gormley, Campbells and O Duib Dhiorma.
Some are a guess in Cenel Tigernach

However, for Cenel Fergus I give my provisional reasoning below and the quandary it would create.

I have the following families under FGC19831:
S603>FGC19831>FGC57924>FT226418 Clark
S603>FGC19831>FT305875>FT381245 Clancy
S603>FGC19831>FT305875>FTA29029>FTB58833 Daly
S603>FGC19831>FGC19839>FT440361>BY91594 Gilmore
S603>FGC19831>FGC19839>FGC19833>FGC19832>FGC19838>FT394633 Stranahan
S603>FGC19831>FGC19839>FGC19833>FGC19832>FGC19838 Robertson


Clancy is an Anglicization of Mac Fhlannachadha, i.e., it is from Flanchadh. The only related surname I could find in the Ui Neill pedigrees was h. Flannagan:

Ceinel Caelbogha im coraige so, Ceinel Aeda andso sis bodhcasta.
Aed mc. Fergusa secht mc. lais .i. Loegaire Tuatan & Uanaind & Coman & Breccan & Landan & Uban.
O Laegaire uero Tellach Cinaeta .i. U Colgan & U Chadhan & U Branagan & U Figegen & U Maelmuaide & U Chathalan & Tellach Muiredaigh & U Loingsecan & U Naisc & U Merga & U Shourre & U Maelfinde & U Flandan & U Firaiste.


Daly is from Dalaigh from Dalach. I am wondering if it could be from H. Duible?
Trempan uero aen mc. aige .i. Faelchu is uadh atad .H. Maelmochoirge & .H. Duible & .H. Duibgilla & .H. Dinertaigh & .H. Muirnechan & .H. Dobran & .H. Duban.


Stranahan, appears as a co. Down surname Ó Sranacháin. Again speculatively could it be from h. Sercachan? I may be to far different.
O'Clery "§695 . Ainninn , as uadha ata .h . Sercachan"


Now Robertson would be Mac Robhartaigh, however the Ó Sranacháin are a subset of Roberton, hence the Robertson could have started as O Robhartaigh.
The O Robhartaigh co-arbs of St Columcille on Tory Island and are consider as Cenel Fergusa.
Probably related to:
Cuanach immoro ceitri mc. lais .i. Robartach ota Ceniel Robartaigh & U Cellaig & Dubhloingsech ota Muinter Dubloingsigh & Muinter Corcran & Cuth Cathrach o fhuilet Cland Concathrach.

However, the Mac Robhartaigh are associated with Ballymagroarty (Baile Mac Rabhartaigh), in the southern end of co. Donegal, next to the Rosclogher, home a Clancy family of note (per the yDNA project the FT381245+ mention above.)

The quandary would be if the Mac Robhartaigh are the FGC19838+ Robertson, how are they also Clan Robertson in Scotland? If as some claim Mac Robhartaigh are the same as the O Robhartaigh of Tory Island and keeper of the Cathach of St. Columba, does that link them with Dunkeld?

The early Uí Néill genealogies are problematic at best. I am staying hands off trying to correlate the Y-DNA and the genealogies until we get better granularity; hopefully in the next few months.

The only thing I will address are the Robertsons, who appear to have developed their surname independently in Scotland. But from the following, it appears they trace their ancestry back to Ireland through the abbey on the Isle of Iona.

The sea-swept Hebrides islands and the west coast of Scotland, made up the ancient Dalriadan kingdom, the ancestral home of the Robertson family. Their name comes from the personal name Robert. Known as the Clan Donnachaidh, (MacDhonnchaidh) 'son of Duncan' the family's origins are very distinguished, as the senior branch of the line were the hereditary abbots of Dunkeld, who traced their descent from Iona. In addition, Abbot Duncan of Dunkeld, the Robertson progenitor, was killed in battle in 964, as he led the warriors, bearing, a reliquary of St. Columba. His grandson, Abbot Crinan of Dunkeld, married the Kings daughter and then fathered King Duncan I of Scotland who was killed by MacBeth (of Shakespearean fame). Crinan is buried at the Isle of lona, burial place of Scotland's early Kings.
https://www.houseofnames.com/robertson-family-crest

Which specific son or grandson of Eógan they descend from will require a lot work to untangle.

Also, the dating of the "sons" of Niall Noígíallach makes it difficult to accept the genealogies as to whom was actually a son. I personally wonder if most of the "sons" of Niall Noígíallach were in fact grandsons. Further, based on what we are seeing with the Uí Briúin and Uí Fiachroí with no mutation currently being seen in Brión's and Fiachróe's generation, I wonder if the same COULD apply to Niall Noígíallach as well. That is, ZZ87 did not occur in Niall Noígíallach, but rather his son.

If so, that would indicate Niall Noígíallach only had one son, based on the Y-DNA evidence so far. The randomness of mutation occurrence precludes that it is a necessity that Niall Noígíallach had no mutation like his half-brothers Brión and Fiachróe. But if Niall Noígíallach only had a single son, it would sure help explain the dates for all the rest. And if this solitary son was not a strong leader, it would certainly explain how Niall Noígíallach's nephew Feradach Daithe AKA Nath Í assumed the kingship after his death and why this solitary son was later ignored.

Niall mc. Eachach muighmedon tra .xiiii. mc. lais .i. Conall err bregh, Conall gulban ghuirt,
Cairpri, Loegaire, Eogan Fiachu Maine Enda Aengus oilderg, Fergus aindteain Fergus mathlorg
tria an uaithgen Caeldubh. Conall earr bregh a quo Clann Colman & Sil Aedha Slaine, Conall .g.
a quo Ceniel Conaill, Laegaire a quo Ceniel Laegaire, Maine a quo Fir Teabhtha, Cairpri a quo
Ceniel Cairpri, Enda a quo Cenel nEnda, Aengus a quo Ceniel nAengusa.
https://genelach.com/transcript-book_of ... ml#UiNeill

Niall Noígíallach is recorded as being slain ~405 AD. Even if we accept that he was only middle-aged at the time of his death, these death dates for his "sons" appear improbable, except for possibly Maine. It would be amusing/interesting if Maine is in fact the only son of Niall Noígíallach.

Conall Eirr Breg	480 AD	died?
Conall Gulban Guirt	~464 AD	slain
Cairbre	~495 AD	died?
Láegaire	462 AD	died -> implied early death
Eógan	465 AD	grief -> implied early death
Fiachu	~514 AD	died?
Maine	440 AD	died?
Éndae
Óengus Óilderg
Fergus Aindteain(?)
Fergus Mátlorg